I have written much on this platform of my point of view, my opinion on American politics, and I have known and still know many more conservative than I,
I wished to change it up a bit, by finding quotes which perhaps these more conservative Americans might agree more to than my usual choices, some which may be rather harsh toward today’s Republicans,
This is an attempt to find possible common ground in which to discuss the individual merits of traditional conservative views, for I ascribe to diversity, and wish to be open to all,
So in the following quotes I wish to explore views, with my assumed conservative quotes chosen, to see both sides of an argument is essential my conservative sister once remarked, and I agree with her.
I wish for a return of serious dialogue, conscientious discussion of our American life, how to move forward, if we all can agree on movement we perhaps can work out the details better,
At this time the divide is too great, the sense of grievance magnified by some leaders is ham stringing any discussion, the polarization energizes the reluctance to cooperate, perhaps cooperate, this is an unhealthy state,
Many have given up on those in the MAGA movement as lost, as they do appear to be so stricken, including myself for some time,
This may open some doors which have been locked, even barricaded in recent years, perhaps cracking the surface just a bit.
Dissoi Logoi, (Greek “contrasting arguments”), an exercise intended to help an individual gain a deeper understanding of an issue by forcing them to consider it from the angle of their opponent, which may serve either to strengthen their own argument or to help the debaters reach a compromise.
A kind of Dissoi Logoi is what I am attempting perhaps in the following writing. This, which may date back to the Peloponnesian War (431-404 BC) seems to perhaps be what we may lack too little of in 2023 America, widely. The option of its use may be too foreign to many at a face value,
And a distrust may be all which results, but I must write.
“Logic helps us to strip off the outward disguise of things, and to behold and judge of them in their own nature.”
— I. Watts.
WATTS, ISAAC, born in Southampton, July 17, 1674; an eminent theologian, littérateur, sacred poet, and author; died, November 25, 1748.
It is my impression that logic is not a valued commodity in this age,
In politics it’s likes on social media which count,
And logic is not always guaranteed in the short measure of words which constitute a post or tweet,
The outrageous seems to invoke action, and many have adapted to this, even those who are at the controls in Washington DC,
Logic is of course a requirement for a society to function, logical thinkers at many levels keep the nation up and going,
However, where logic should be the most refined, in the machinery of government we see weakness,
All the logical thinker can do is stay logical and try to entice those of uncertain thinking means to try and join in for the good of the nation’s future.
“He that wrestles with us strengthens our nerves, and sharpens our skill; our opponent is our helper.”
— Burke.
BURKE, EDMUND, born in Dublin, January 1, 1730; a distinguished orator, statesman, philanthropist, and writer; as an orator he ranks among the first of modern times, and as a writer there are few who equal, and none who transcend him; died, July 9, 1797. [perhaps the foremost conservative philosopher in history]
“The true end of argument is information; for if you search purely after truth, it will be almost in different to you where you find it.”
— E. Budgell
BUDGELL, EUSTACE, born near Exeter, England, 1685; an English essayist and contributor to the "Spectator" died by suicide, May 4, 1736.
Yes - Burke was onto something so many years ago, this particular man debated Thomas Paine after all,
And we perhaps should strive for information to address our shared problems in America, the infighting of the nation has limited our progress most certainly, progress for the majority as we still are a democratic nation,
So it doesn’t matter where our answers might come from, dug in heels hot with resentment can not pass on valuable information,
No one will ever get exactly what they wish for, one must resign to this reality, and a concerted effort to listen is in order, rather than over-talk,
Truth can’t be the victim, on this we must agree, this is so important, and perhaps is our largest handicap.
*****
“A statesman may do much for commerce by leaving it alone.”
— W. H. Russell
RUSSELL, WILLIAM HOWARD, born of English parents at Lilyvale, county of Dublin, March 28, 1821; a celebrated English author, and the famous war correspondent of the "London Times."
Governmental interference of private enterprise, this a conservative dislike, perhaps of major importance,
And this is easily to understand for this writer, and it seems rather concrete, may not vary much for many I may know,
This will continue to be a philosophical debate perhaps for all times,
I can agree that the government can overstep its role, and not every policy will be perfect in all conditions, this seems worthy of discussion, with compromise being part of the issue.
“We should always regulate our wants by the amount of our income.”
— E. Hickeringill.
HICKERINGILL, EDMUND, born, 1630; an English divine and writer; died, 1708.
The idea of fiscal conservatism, within one’s on home, business, and extending into local, state and federal government certainly has merit,
The sticking part has been to where resources have been spent, the pie grows bigger each year, but our pie is perhaps not unlimited,
So this seems a very old principle which there can be shared agreement,
Politics gets in the way of this essential question, and give and take is what happens, and this probably will never change, debate is required,
There is much fallacy wrapped up in this item, and patience is needed.
“Aristocracy is not contemptible as a system of government; in fact, it is the only one a true gentleman can acquiesce in.”
— W. S. Landor.
LANDOR, WALTER SAVAGE, born at Ipsley Court, Warwickshire, England, January 30, 1775; a celebrated English poet, philosopher, essayist, and critic. He served in the Spanish army against Napoleon, from 1808 to 1814; died at Florence, September, 1864.
The propensity to rely upon the wealthy for their guidance seems to be a conservative idea, perhaps very hardened, tax cuts for all, we may declare,
This idea of using the well-to-do for doing makes intuitive sense perhaps,
My personal opinion is that this has been a great mistake since the 1980s, but Americans are Americans, so it’s understandable, the movers and shakers have their experience after all,
I think that the unfettered power from those of much avarice, is a major problem, perhaps I am mistaken of the motives involved, and all in the nation living up to citizenship,
So the role of the American aristocracy must be discussed, the discussion has largely been absent due to the political divide.
“Who can estimate the importance of agriculture, in a national point of view, as controlling the character, the prosperity, and independence of our country?”
— E. Mack.
MACK, EBENEZER, born in the State of New York,. 1793; an American publisher and agriculturist; died, 1863.
“He who would look with contempt upon the farmer's pursuit, is not worthy the name of a man.”
— H. W. Beecher.
BEECHER, HENRY WARD, born in Litchfield, Connecticut, June 21, 1813; a popular minister, lecturer, and author, and as a reformer he stands in the first rank.
“Human sagacity, stimulated by human wants, seizes first on the nearest natural assistant. The power of his own arm is an early lesson among the studies of primitive man; this is animal strength; and from this he rises to the conception of employing, for his own use, the strength of other animals.”
— D. Webster.
WEBSTER, DANIEL, born in Salisbury, New Hampshire, January 18, 1782; a celebrated American statesman, jurist, and orator; died in Marshfield, October 24, 1852.
I have lived and worked in rural areas much of my life, have been involved in agriculture in several states, and the “city understanding” of farms and ranches has always been a problem,
There is legitimate feelings of abandonment of the family farm, even as they continue to disappear in a changing world,
The farmer or rancher may give up hope of relating to a country at a federal level of their true needs to help feed the country,
The government is mostly to blame in the minds with most of those on the land, rather unfortunate in its simplicity to a very complex way of life in 2023, certainly removed from when these quotes were printed (1884),
The livestock agriculturalist, are very suspicious of those who dislike their operations with live animals,
Most are extremely conscientious of their livestock’s health, and are resentful of those who may dislike their occupations,
So I understand this aspect quite well, and the rural/city divide continues,
I only want more open dialogue, this is what is primarily lacking in my estimation.
“Craft putteth on it the habit of policy.”
— Sheil
SHEIL, RICHARD LALOR, born in Dublin, 1793; a celebrated Irish orator and patriot; died in Florence, Italy, 1851.
Farmers and ranchers dislike government interference in the form of policies which may make their work harder,
They are distrustful of government, and of environmental groups in particular,
although much federal dollars are given to many, the distrust remains,
Big changes are not easy to do on a farm or ranch, like in any small business,
More understanding is needed, more dialogue, more building of trust.
“A citizen is not an alien; alienage is an inseparable barrier, till removed, to citizenship.”
— Calhoun.
CALHOUN, JOHN CALDWELL, LL.D., born in Abbeville district, South Carolina, March 18, 1782 ; an eminent American statesman; died at Washington, March 31, 1850.
Our southern border continues to be a hot button issue, perhaps put foremost out in front view as a political strategy, yet it is a problem, and a complex one,
John C. Calhoun was a one time US Vice President, and an unapologetic slave owner, a man who disliked democracy, this as a reference point,
So I wish for secure borders as well, and control of immigration is a requirement for security,
No one really is advocating for open borders, this is a misperception intentionally furthered,
So cooperation of political parties in finding solutions is what is needed most certainly,
Hopefully we will get to the place where it can occur in time.
“Constancy is the true and immovable strength of the mind; it is sometimes called stability and perseverance, and is the best part of fortitude.”
— Nicholas Breton.
BRETON, NICHOLAS, born, 1555; an English poet and prose writer; died, 1624.
The conservative way of not changing what is working is understandable,
There is a certain value in constancy in many areas of life,
This is the only point in this quote being written, we can agree on this to a certain degree most certainly.
“A house without a roof would scarcely be a more indifferent home than a family state unsheltered by God's friendship and the sense of being always rested in His vidential care and guidance.”
— Dr. Bushnell.
BUSHNELL, HORACE, D.D., born at New Preston, Litchfield county, Connecticut, April 14, 1802; an American theologian, journalist, and lawyer; died, 1876.
“Those who have minutely studied the character of the Savior, will find it difficult to determine whether there is most to admire or to imitate in it, there is so much of both.”
— Dr. J. Brown
BROWN, JOHN, (of Haddington,) born in Perthshire, Scotland, 1722; a Scottish religious writer and linguist, and author of a "Dictionary of the Bible," and "The Self - Interpreting Bible;" died, June 19, 1787.
Faith has it’s important role in family, this old idea can’t be disputed regardless of one’s religious or spiritual leanings,
And freedom to worship certainly is not in true question, and the actual concerted efforts against organized religion may exist to some degree,
But this is not a right we can worry about losing with our US Constitution’s First Amendment, if the constitution remains,
The role of religion in government is perhaps a different issue, and this needs serious dialogue most certainly,
To live by the principles taught by Jesus Christ, to imitate him certainly is not going to be objected to by myself, and perhaps few on the left.
“Self-reliance is a noble and manly quality of the character; and he who exercises it in small matters, schools himself by that discipline for its exercise in matters of more momentous importance.”
— W. Rathbone.
RATHBONE, WILLIAM, born about 1815; an English author, (London, 1867.)
Pulling oneself up by bootstraps is a very stubborn part of conservative ideology,
While the mythology of this simplification of a key to way to the road to the American dream is perplexing, as nearly everyone is helped along the way,
Self-reliance certainly has its place in the real world,
So this Americanization does apply to a certain extent, on this I agree.
“Self-preservation is a duty.”
— L. Euler.
EULER, LEONARD, born at Bâle, April 15, 1707; a Swiss mathematician and author; died, 1783.
“Self-preservation” is filling in for “self-defense” and toward the Second Amendment,
Which although in my opinion misinterpreted by the US Supreme Court, one cannot deny the right to self-defense, although having a weapon might increase your chances of injury or death,
So this right in the constitution is firmly entrenched, it is not under peril, regardless of words so stating it is,
The Second Amendment even though the latest generous interpretations do not prohibit some controls be put into place, here is a conversation to have, lives are being lost needlessly.
“Some have said that it is not the business of private men to meddle with government - a bold and dishonest saying, which is fit to come from no mouth but that of a tyrant or a slave. To say that private men have nothing to do with government is to say that private men have nothing to do with their own happiness or misery; that people ought not to concern themselves whether they be naked or clothed, fed or starved, deceived or instructed, protected or destroyed.”
— Cato.
CATO, MARCUS PORCIUS, THE YOUNGER, born in Utica, in Rome, 95 B.C.; a celebrated Roman, Stoic philosopher, and patriot, and one of the purest and noblest of men; died at Utica, by his own hand, 46 B.C.
Cato in this quote warns of tyrannical government excluding the private man,
A government too powerful perhaps in the mind of a conservative, might be a danger in this respect, perhaps overloading commerce with regulations, taxing too heavily, etc.,
I too want to have a say in my government as a private man, that is why the apparent march toward authoritarianism in recent years concerns me deeply,
On this we can all perhaps hopefully agree, keeping a democratic republic in working order is a qualifier, however.
“Ambition is the germ from which all growth of nobleness proceeds.”
— T. D. English.
ENGLISH, THOMAS DUNN, M.D., born in Philadelphia, June 29, 1819; an American lawyer, doctor, poet, and novelist; died, 1878.
“The serenest happiness we can enjoy on earth is derived from industry.”
— J. Swartz.
SWARTZ, JOEL, born in Baltimore, Maryland, 1797; an American Lutheran divine and author, (
Baltimore, 1865.)
“Work is no disgrace, but idleness is.”
— Hesiod.
HESIOD, born at Ascra, in Boetia, and flourished about 850 B.C.; a celebrated Greek poet.
One must pay one’s way through American life through one’s work, this the lesson I’ve heard throughout my life,
And I took it to heart, I was able to work hard, make mistakes, but still I am able now to concentrate on tasks I had no time for during my working years,
But I’m in favor of work, so this will not get much of an argument from me,
But there are going to have to be exceptions to this rule in real life, it’s impractical not to have it so,
Work ethic is a universally accepted concept, it’s the exception we need to discuss.
“To let slip a favorable opportunity is the greatest proof of imbecility.”
— Pittacus.
PITTACUS, born at Mitylene, in Lesbos, 650 B.C.; one of the Seven Wise Men of Greece; died, 569 B.C.
I perceive that the conservatives of today seem to fill the niche as opportunists, this may be more far reaching then I realize however,
I wish not to say one way or another about taking advantage of opportunities, as one must do so through life,
So this advice from six hundred years before Christ seems still relevant to all people,
And one must be forgiving to the opportunist who plays by the rules in my opinion,
Although to take it always to the extreme seems not wise,
As a certain US Senator from Arizona and one from South Carolina come to mind.
“That wealth consists in money, or in gold and silver, is a popular notion which naturally arises from the double function of money, as the instrument of commerce, and as the measure of value.”
— Adam Smith.
SMITH, ADAM, born at Kirkaldy, Fifeshire, June 5 , 1723; a celebrated Scottish philosopher, and writer on social and political economy; died, July, 1790.
Money is important to nearly everyone in America, and it as a measure of value is certainly widespread,
If undue emphasis is placed upon money, most likely there are hardships in store, not of poverty, but a loss of living,
It’s my perception that money may play more of a part of the modern conservatism, than perhaps those of other ideological leanings,
And we must have money, it involves us all, we certainly can find common ground here.
“If the cause and end of war be justifiable, all the means that appear necessary to the end are justifiable also.”
— Paley.
PALEY, WILLIAM, D.D.; the father of the preceding, born at Peterborough, 1743; an eminent English divine, theologian, moralist, and writer; died, May 25, 1805.
The inclination to include torture in the war on terror earlier this century come to mind, with candidate Trump fully in favor of it, it seems that a justification was deemed appropriate in today’s conservative,
Although I am personally against this action, and think it harmed the nation’s world standing, one can understand the rationale,
What we do as a nation in war has always been a question, and hard decisions were made in the past, justifiable actions were taken,
This we can discuss further, although I do not hope for war crimes to be committed in our name.
“Man's nature runs to either herbs or weeds; let him culture them by seasonably watering the one, and destroying the other.”
— Lady Gethin.
GETHIN, LADY GRACE, born in Somerset, England, 1676; an English literary lady and moralist; died, 1697.
This is a reference to the “culture war” going on now, what takes the place of need policy discussions today,
This quote indicates making judgments on cultural issues, and perhaps elimination of those deemed undesirable,
I would prefer that we don’t concentrate on such things within our government, as it seems rather like a waste of resources,
But if we must discuss cultural issues, let's do so in a mature and intelligent way.
“The English language has a veritable power of expression such as, perhaps, never stood at the command of any other language of men.”
— J. Grimm.
GRIMM, JAKOB LUDWIG, born at Hanau, January 4, 1785 a distinguished German jurist, historiographer, and philanthropist; died in Berlín, September 20, 1863.
America first, English the only language, as it’s the best, on this I disagree and wish I would have taken a foreign language,
But this quote perhaps would be widely appreciated among today’s conservatives.
“There is nothing more to be desired, nor anything ought to be more dear to us, than the love of our country.”
— Stæbeus.
No biography of Stæbeus in the 1884 reference book.
Patriotism, the love for America, the Stars and Stripes, the military parades, etc.,
This expression is not unique to the conservative, but it’s one on full display,
We can all agree on being patriotic, and the ways are not limited, we should have more in-depth conversations on this in my opinion.
“The history of communism is a history of tyranny, rapine, and murder; its propagandists proved themselves red - handed scoundrels, and their followers consummate idiots.”
— D. Urquhart.
URQUHART, DAVID, born in Cromarty, 1805; an able Scotch writer, politician, and traveler; díed, May 16, 1877.
Even in 1884, the dangers of communism were written,
I included this as I share my dislike for the outcomes of the attempts at communism in practice,
Most can agree on communism not being an option, and from not allowing it to take root,
It is however a far degree of separation from the current mainstream of the American left.
“I am happy with the English; I do not wish to return to the savage life.”
— Pocahontas
POCAHONTAS, the daughter of Powhatan, an Indian chief of Virginia, born, 1594; she was converted to Christianity, and married to John Rolfe, an English gentleman; died, 1617.
I know many conservatives who dislike the sovereign nature of the American Indian reservations,
They may consider this different culture still as uncivilized in some ways,
I don’t agree with theses assessments, and the 1884 reference had some rather harsh quotes of the savages,
If Pocahontas was actually happy, it might be hard to say.
“A rude democracy is not republicanism.”
— Beza
BEZA, THEODORE, born at Vezelay, Burgundy, June 24, 1519; a Calvanistic theologian and reformer; died, October 13, 1605.
I’m uncertain what a “rude democracy” exactly is,
But I found the quote interesting, although a lot is left to interpretation,
But this quote might be appreciated by the conservative,
And discussion is always welcomed as to the exact interpretation of terms.
“To be free is not to be doing nothing; it is to be one's own master as to what one ought to do, or not to do; what a blessing in this sense is liberty!
— Bruyère.
BRUYERE, JEAN, DE LA, born at Dourdan, in Normandy, 1646; a celebrated French author and moralist; died 1696.
This may be a good definition of “freedom” to a modern conservative,
And generally I agree with it as well, especially of what not to do,
I could have several examples of this to state, but we perhaps all have them in mind without mentioning them here.
We can agree broadly on freedom most likely, but it continues to be something evolving which we must continue to discuss and make needed adjustments in my opinion.
“Men may have merit without rising to eminence, but no one has ever reached eminence without some degree of merit.”
— Rochefoucauld.
Meritocracy is alive and well in the United States and most conservatives would claim it very important, and government interference in hiring unwelcome,
I was in this system for a number of years, when affirmative action was also present, and generally the right person was chosen for each job,
Hiring is a difficult thing, so one can have some leniency on this part of public and private positions, and competency should always be the goal, advancement on merit makes sense,
So I see this as common ground for discussions.
ROCHEFOUCAULD, FRANÇOIS DUC DE LA, (Prince de Marsillac,) born, December 1613; a celebrated French courtier and moralist. His fame as a man of letters rests chiefly on his "Maxims and Moral Reflections ," which do more credit to his head than his heart; died, 1680.
“The past and the remembrance of it have a never - ending power, and if painful longings arise to give ourselves up to it, it has yet an inexpressible charm; we can shut ourselves up in thought with those whom we have loved and lost; we can turn away in peace and freedom from all that is external, and though still active and beneficent, for ourselves we ask nothing, for everything that the heart has the power to enjoy is within our breast.”
— Humboldt.
HUMBOLDT, KARL WILHELM, BARON, VON, born at Potsdam, June 22, 1767; a distinguished German statesman and philologist; died at Tegel, near Berlin, April 8 , 1835.
To be reactionary, wanting to return to a past time of more comfort is described above as emotional, a thing for the heart to contemplate,
It seems to me to be mostly an emotional response to today’s rapidly changing world,
But it seems illogical to try and obtain, something perhaps beyond a realistic chance of ever happening, even with great effort expended,
But one can always look backwards for examples on policy changes for example,
This is the type of conversation worth pursuing in my opinion.
“Let your conversation be without malice or envy, for it is a sign of a tractable and commendable nature.”
— Washington.
WASHINGTON, GEORGE, born at Bridge's Creek, Westmoreland county. Virginia, February 22, 1732; a distinguished American general, statesman, and patriot, the first President of the United States, "First in peace, first in war, and first in the hearts of his countrymen; " died at Mount Vernon. December 14, 1799.
With the time I spent on this writing it is my hopes that it might initiate some thinking and perhaps some exchange of information,
We can all agree on the importance of George Washington to the country, and perhaps we should heed his advice these days, in our discussion of the issues of importance,
I feel a little more familiar with the conservative viewpoint from this exercise, although it is only my interpretation of the general ideology, individuals differ of course,
Perhaps some logical compromise is in our future, or at least more of it than we perceive is happening by the news reports,
Goodday.
29th posting, March 25, 2023